Mark Guiliana: “This album is my mirror”

Categorizing Mark Guiliana’s music is no easy task. Although the American drummer has a background in classical jazz drumming, he is equally at home with indie rock, Spanish flamenco, folkloric sounds and electronic beats. He became known through his collaboration with the Israeli bassist Avishai Cohen and quickly proved his extraordinary talent, founding the jazz-indie rock trio Heernt and collaborating with the greatest jazz and rock artists of our time: Brad Mehldau, David Bowie, Matt Cameron, Dave Douglas and, lately, with the rock singer and guitarist St. Vincent.

Although Guiliana can already look back on a career spanning more than twenty years, he is only now releasing his first complete solo album and for the first time has taken the lead in all areas: composition, recording and production. The result is a mix of the most diverse influences of the last decades, characterized by numerous percussive soundscapes, piano instrumentals, electronic synths and even spoken word. MARK is an intimate album on which he devotes himself to the essential questions of his life - and comes to the conclusion that we too often rush into finding answers where we ought to be focusing on asking the right questions.

How would you describe your kind of music to someone who doesn’t know you?

See, this is the problem here (laughs). The problem feels like trying to find the right words and I’m always happy to try. But I still have yet to find a clear answer, and I think that we can all agree that’s one of the beauties of music, or one of the things that draws us to it. It can express things that, at least for me, when words fail, the music does a better job. For me it’s a constantly evolving expression. I’m always trying to allow all of my influences to be present whenever possible and to help inform the expression. I think my previous projects might have been a little easier to describe, whereas beat music fits into kind of a pre-existing, more electronic music category, or the jazz quartet fits a little more easily into what people would identify as a jazz context. The whole point with this solo project is that it isn’t really a genre, it’s genre-less, in my mind, at least. And it’s been really exciting to explore what’s possible, both in the solo shows and on the solo recording.

I think most often it seems there’s more focus on expressing itself and trying to give your unique perspective. But I feel in order to create an expression, you need to learn about yourself first. So for me, that’s where my attention has been. I used to focus more on the expression and more on what I want the expression to be. And now I’m trying to focus more on figuring out who I am, little by little. And then whatever that is will be the expression.

Do you feel that you know yourself better today than you did five years ago?

Maybe? I still feel like I know very little about myself. Looking back on the catalog, I’m proud of everything. My first record as a leader was with this band called Heernt, which came out in 2006. 18 years ago, it’s crazy… And of course, now that I have a little more experience or knowledge, I could say, I would have done this differently. But I feel like that’s wasted energy to think that way because I couldn’t have done it any differently. And that’s the whole point. When I listen to it, I actually hear my 25 year old self and I’m jealous of him (me) because I can’t behave that way anymore. I’ve had all these other experiences and I’m someone else now. For me, it’s very important to create documents as often as I can. It’s almost like a journal over time. That was me then, and it’s okay if I disagree with some choices now. To me this record, MARK, does feel like a crystallized version of myself now and it does feel very true. So yes, maybe I do know more about myself now than I did. But we can talk again in five years and see (laughs).

Between electronic beats, rock music and classical jazz sounds — where and how did you find all your musical influences?

I started playing drums in 1995. I was living in the suburbs in New Jersey, outside of New York City, and I was just a regular kid who would listen to the radio and MTV. So I was listening to Soundgarden, Pearl Jam or Nirvana and things like that and that was the first music I started playing on drums. So that is always a very special place in my musical life, that will always be home, although a lot of the projects I’ve been part of have been very far from that music. And more recently, in the last few years, I’ve been playing with an amazing artist named St. Vincent. Getting to work with her and playing on really big stages and festivals, that’s actually the closest I’ve come to those early rock beginnings.

A childhood dream come true, so to speak?

Yeah, totally! And what’s really crazy is that there’s a song on her new album called Broken Man, which I play on. And at the end of the song, for the last 30 seconds or so, she had Dave Grohl play the ending. So it goes from me to Dave — and for me again, he’s one of the very first influences, the first times I sat down and I was playing along to Nirvana. It’s very surreal to close those loops and to start to have those experiences. I haven’t put myself out there with that music as much over the years that it was a surprise for some people to see me with St. Vincent. But actually, for me, it’s almost the most comfortable I can be.

You then decided to train in classical jazz. How did that come about?

When I started taking drum lessons, I was introduced to all different styles. And there was something about jazz — I think also, because the drum set was invented inside of jazz. It was created to help support that music. And it’s a very young instrument, only a little over 100 years old. I just thought the best drummers at the school were always the guys in the jazz band, you know? (laughs) I always felt like a little more serious path. And then I fell in love with John Coltrane and Miles Davis, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey and Tony Williams and those guys. And when I studied jazz in college I had the opportunity to play with a lot of great musicians in that world. So that started to inform my choices and then very quickly got into electronic music; got into West African folkloric music and got into flamenco.

As I started to travel, the first main professional gig I had was with the bass player Avishai Cohen, right when I finished college. I was with him for about six years, and we made five or six albums and I learned so much. But it was really that travelling. It’s very different to go to a record store in New Jersey and buy a flamenco Paco de Lucia CD. It’s amazing, but it’s very different to be in Madrid and to be around that energy. Avishai introduced me to that world, he was playing with Chick Corea and these guys, and I was starting to meet so many new people and to learn from them and absorb the folkloric music of different places.

And this also creates a blend of new influences, doesn’t it?

Exactly. For me, a big thing is letting the influences interact with each other. The way they can talk to each other can create something even more exciting. There’s a kind of pub in my mind and all of my heroes are hanging out there together. Bob Marley is talking to Kurt Cobain, John Coltrane is talking to Paco de Lucia, Aphex Twin is talking to Bach (laughs). It’s very exciting for me to imagine what would come out of a conversation with those kinds of people, you know.

Probably the best proof of these conversations is your new album MARK...

Yes! There’s one song titled Hero Soup. And I kind of think that’s it. I’m just constantly making a soup with all these ingredients and seeing what can happen.

There’s a kind of pub in my mind and all of my heroes are hanging out there together. Bob Marley is talking to Kurt Cobain, John Coltrane is talking to Paco de Lucia, Aphex Twin is talking to Bach.

MARK is actually your first complete solo album. Why did it only come about now?

Well, it never crossed my mind. I started playing music to play with other musicians. That’s what brings me the most joy and the interaction, especially improvised situations and the energy that can get passed back and forth and the unexpected turns the music can take. And I never really played other instruments, I was a drummer, you know. I write my music on piano, but I would never dare play piano in front of people. But over the years my confidence at the piano increased and my confidence in the compositions increased, as well as my confidence in being able to produce records and create sounds in the studio to the point where it felt like, okay, I think I can create something from start to finish and not have to rely on other musicians to participate. Of course I have influences or opinions of friends or the engineers, but I saw it as a challenge to see what I can make, if it’s just me. And this is the result.

How did you feel in this lead role of the overall project?

If I thought too much about it, it could feel scary. So I tried to just really put my head down and make it. I did my very first solo show in December of last year, and to me it was a little scary, but in a good way. I very rarely get nervous before I play. I feel so lucky to have had so many experiences and I’ve built confidence over the years. So I usually feel good walking on stage, and it was very refreshing to be very nervous before my first solo show. I felt alive, actually. It was a beautiful reminder of being alive.

What was the central idea behind the album? It’s obviously a very personal project…

This record is to me… I’m looking in the mirror and this is what I see, at least for now. A lot of: Who am I? The first song, for example, is basically a conversation between two versions of myself. One version of myself is saying that he’s looking for answers and the other — wiser — version tells the first one not to worry about answers, but focus on the questions. And this is one of the lessons I learned lately. I tend to focus on answers and there’s a very open question, and then an answer can close that. We tend to really hold on tight to our answers. And we’re sometimes not willing to question the answers or re-examine them. So for me, I found that I am happier in life when I’m focusing on the questions, and it allows the answers to change a bit as things change. Maybe sometimes they change drastically, sometimes very small, but it’s much more relaxing to find the good questions that I can ask all the time and not worry about the answers as much. Something like: What is the most important thing? That answer can change, but it’s a very helpful question to keep me centered.

So I feel that the album is a musical result of me asking questions and sometimes actually being surprised by the answers. That’s evidence on the record. A lot of it started from improvisations. Many of the songs were composed without drums actually, like Kamakura, Costello, Alone or Peace, please. Those were written over the last year at the piano. And I can’t really improvise as well on the piano so every time I sit down, I play it approximately the same way. But the more drum centered pieces were built upon improvisations in the studio, and they were responses to me asking questions rather than coming in with the answers. I think my ego as a 25 year old always needed a really strong answer. But now I’m less interested in the answer and more focused on the right question.

Would you say that your new album is very different from your old ones?

Some way in the big picture, it’s exactly the same in regards to what my expression is at this moment. For every record you could say, this is the document of this moment. But technically in the details it is quite different but I think mostly just because I played everything on my own. So usually I’m reliant on the inspiration of the other musicians and that interaction. Without that involved here, I had to dig a little deeper in myself.

Did you still exchange ideas with other people?

Well, I’m very lucky to live with a fantastic musician. My wife Gretchen (Parlato) is amazing and we’re constantly exchanging ideas, even though I’m sure she gets tired of hearing the same 50 different versions of the same song. Right now I’m back here in a little studio outside of our house, in the backyard, but our piano is in the house. And even just working on ideas, we’re always hearing each other’s ideas and talking about them. I also did a tour with my quartet at the end of last year and this was very helpful. I brought in some of the songs just to breathe some new life into the repertoire. So we played Alone and Costello and Peace, please and each night it was exciting to hear their interpretations and it helped me maybe imagine what could happen. But once the recording started, I kind of had the idea set, so I just kind of did it.

What was it like to record in the legendary Studio 606, founded and owned by the Foo Fighters?

It was amazing to be there. Actually, the first rehearsals we did with St. Vincent back in 2021 were at 606, and she has the same management as the Foo Fighters. It’s covered with lots of memorabilia and tons of instruments and all those things. I got to meet those guys back then, and I’ve done a couple recordings there since, and I just thought it would be a fun place. It’s a really large room, so I was able to set up all of the instruments and everything was ready so I could just follow my intuition in the moment and sit down at different places and try stuff. So yeah, it was definitely not an accident to do it there because there’s a lot of good energy in that place.

I think my ego as a 25 year old always needed a really strong answer. But now I’m less interested in the answer and more focused on the right question.

In your career  you have worked, besides St. Vincent, with such great artists like Brad Mehldau, Avishai Cohen or even with David Bowie on his last album. What have you learned most from these collaborations?

With David I have so many great memories from that experience. But if I had to take one thing away, he had these two qualities, among its thousands of other qualities, that don’t seem to go together, but somehow he had both. One was an incredibly clear vision and knew what he wanted, but at the same time was incredibly open to everyone’s ideas. And I try to always use that as a reminder that they can coexist and when they do, it can really lead to some exciting musical results.

And then of course there’s Brad, he’s one of my heroes. Long before I had the chance to play with him, I was and I’m still such a fan. It was really a thrill to get to work with him. Not just playing with him, it led to a great relationship. And this year marks ten years since our album — Mehliana — was released, so I keep bothering him to just play at least one show just to honor that. But yeah, he’s really one of my favorite musicians and I hope we can still do a lot together.